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Count Raymond by dashinvaine Count Raymond by dashinvaine
Raymond VII of Toulouse to be precise. Last gallant defender of his realm against the agression of the Roman Church and the northern French. Oil on card (Something new!)
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Raymond was a Catholic but not Roman Catholic, perhaps. As Catholic as one might remain after seeing the things done to one's homeland in the name of that faith by the papal forces of the Albigensian Crusade; after seeing one's father falsely accused of murdering a papal legate and being denied the chance to clear his name; after having one's ancestral lands pillaged and titles usurped... I don't think Raymond ever subscribed to the Cathar ideology, but like his father he was reluctant to follow the Pope's command to hunt them down and kill them. Heretics as the Cathars were, they led holy and simple lives of apostolic poverty and provided real spiritual leadership to the people, while the high Roman clergy were corrupt, indolent and conspicuously wealthy. Meanwhile the pope Innocent III was busily trying to become monarch over all monarchs, and was as mired in politics as anyone. This is why the southern nobility resisted.

Count Raymond like the occitan noble and former rebel/patriot Oliver of Thermes was going to join the Seventh Crusade as a show of obedience to the Roman Catholic faith and Capetian dynasty, but Louis IX would hardly have let him stay behind! Anyway by then the wider struggle against papal absolutism has been taken up by Frederick II of Germany.

By then (the late 1240s) all was lost for the Count of Toulouse, Raymond's English alliance had collapsed, and Monstsegur had fallen, Raymond being in no position to relieve it. Raymond had ultimately been forced to give his daughter's hand to a scion of the Capetians, Alphonse of Poitiers, and the distinguished St-Gilles dynasty, with no male heir, was effectively over. Moreover Raymond was unable to prevent the establishment of the Inquisition in Toulouse, both these things being concessions he had to make to bring the Albigensian wars to a close.
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:iconadri34:
Adri34 Featured By Owner Edited Nov 15, 2014
Occitania I am a dummy! 
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:iconfredrikslicer:
fredrikslicer Featured By Owner Apr 18, 2014
great painting
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:iconmanwith0name:
manwith0name Featured By Owner Jan 1, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
An excellent work of art! I like your inclusion of his historical background. Bravo, bravo!
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:iconname-already-chosen:
name-already-chosen Featured By Owner May 26, 2011
Well done!
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:iconallatwan:
Allatwan Featured By Owner Jan 12, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
A beautiful painting of someone I admire ^^ And from my region too!
I wear the cross on his shield around my neck too ^^
Have you ever been to Toulouse or Carcassonne? They are gorgeous cities :)
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:iconheavens-champion:
heavens-champion Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2010
This is a fabulous picture! A perfect interpretation of a man who fought in the First Crusade.
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2010
This is a later Raymond of Toulouse, not the First Crusade leader, but thanks.
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:iconheavens-champion:
heavens-champion Featured By Owner Mar 2, 2010
Oh. Sorry for the misconception.
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:icondavidsimpson2112:
DavidSimpson2112 Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2008
Innoncent III was anything but Innocent , I read a report on the guy.
This is a really awsome work. Did you do research for the armour? Is that what his real armour looked like?
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Nov 15, 2008
It's about right for the period. Innocent III was a propper bastard.
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:iconlil-richo:
lil-richo Featured By Owner Jan 17, 2008  Hobbyist Photographer
Awesome!! :D
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:iconbensworld:
bensworld Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2007
I really like this piece, great drawing, good colours used, has lots of energy in it which I like :)
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:icontouch-not-this-cat:
Touch-Not-This-Cat Featured By Owner Jun 9, 2007
Are you implying that his Catholic faith and repentenc was not genuine?
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:icontouch-not-this-cat:
Touch-Not-This-Cat Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2007
Well, after studying the history of the Manicheans, I have to consider the extraordinary pressures the stubborn Cather presence was having on the Church, and there was as much demand that something be done about it from the common folk, as there were those who were reluctant to fight.

I was reading an awesome volume, The New Encyclopedia of Christian Martyrs, and in its introduction to the Reformation period, it rather thoroughly chronicles how the early Catholic Church dealt with heretics, versus how they were handled in later periods, in order to get to the bottom of such aggression about Christian against Christian. Early heretics were censored, banished, peacefully imprisoned, but always peacefully, the Church never allowed violence against them, unless their doctrines inclined them to be the aggressors first. Even then, the Church tended to regard dealing with them a matter of secular security, rather then ecclesiastical.

The first great exception to this began with the increasingly violent reactions of the Manicheans, who were inclined, like their Cather Heirs, to extremes of nihilistic asceticism, to raving violence against the physical world. (I regard the Cathers as a kind of institutionalized schizophrenia, a philosophy of extremes.)
Time and again, the church would demonstrate that there is only One Good Loving yet Terrifying God, who made both matter and sprit, and made them both good, and it is only through our free will that evil came into the world. The corruption in the Church at that time, or any other, is no excuse to dismiss a very hard and difficult decision that Rome had been putting off for centuries (regarding Manicheans as a whole).
[Saint Francis showed that the Church then, as later, can always be cleaned, if you are just willing to get in the muck and clean it. (That's my whole problem with the Reformation in a nutshell: People would rather leave THE ROCK when it gets dirty, and go build a new house on clean sand. Rome always wins when the storms come.)]

The way the Church treated Heretics began to change, as a matter of policy, not in the west but in the east, in Byzantium. But that, at first, was mainly aggressive secular politics masquerading as spiritual concerns; the first enemies of the church in which its doctrines fundamentally inclined them to be the aggressors first, was, of coarse, Islam.
I think the effects of aggression and counter aggressions that the rise of Islam had on the Church as a whole really set the stage for the final reaction against the Cathers. Furthermore, the Saracens, who were looking for an opertunity to take the rest of Europe, controlled Spain at the time. Had the Cathers succeeded in taking France, the Muslims would have likely taken advantage of the chaos. And they would have treated the Albaginsians far worse, seeing as they were polytheists, and Muslims hated them much more then Christians in those days.

As for the Dominicans, just look at how they ruined St. Francis Xavier's chance to convert China due to the Rites Controversy! If China had become Catholic, the murders of HUNDREDS OF MILLIANS of little girls could have been avoided! As much as I love Saint Dominic, I really tend to feel that the Dominican Order has been obsolete since the rise of the Jesuits. Would slavery have started in the New World if the Jesuits had controlled all spiritual matters in the colonies? I can't help but wonder.
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:iconennio444:
Ennio444 Featured By Owner Apr 19, 2012
No one really knows what the Cathar true beliefs and ideology was. Our only sources are Catholic accounts of inquisitors, and they are very, very different. Some say Cathars were just mendicant "perfect" Christians (although wrong), and others say that they commited ritual suicide in order to escape from the devilish world. Most historians distrust this "ritual suicide", although probably some extremist cell of cathars did reach that during the Crusade.

There's a lot in your conclusions that don't match with the current historical debate. It seems you drink only from Catholic sources, but that's no way to have a solid vision.
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Jun 10, 2007
Raymond was a Catholic but not Roman Catholic, perhaps. As Catholic as one might remain after seeing the things done to one's homeland in the name of that faith by the papal forces of the Albigensian Crusade; after seeing one's father falsely accused of murdering a papal legate and being denied the chance to clear his name; after having one's ancestral lands pillaged and titles usurped... I don't think Raymond ever subscribed to the Cathar ideology, but like his father he was reluctant to follow the Pope's command to hunt them down and kill them. Heretics as the Cathars were, they led holy and simple lives of apostolic poverty and provided real spiritual leadership to the people, while the high Roman clergy were corrupt, indolent and conspicuously wealthy. Meanwhile the pope Innocent III was busily trying to become monarch over all monarchs, and was as mired in politics as anyone. This is why the southern nobility resisted.

Ok so Count Raymond like the occitan noble and former rebel/patriot Oliver of Thermes was going to join the Seventh Crusade as a show of obedience to the Roman Catholic faith and Capetian dynasty, but Louis IX would hardly have let him stay behind! Anyway by then the wider struggle against papal absolutism has been taken up by Frederick II of Germany.

By then (the late 1240s) all was lost for the Count of Toulouse, Raymond's English alliance had collapsed, and Monstsegur had fallen, Raymond being in no position to relieve it. Raymond had ultimately been forced to give his daughter's hand to a scion of the Capetians, Alphonse of Poitiers, and the distinguished St-Gilles dynasty, with no male heir, was effectively over. Moreover Raymond was unable to prevent the establishment of the Inquisition in Toulouse, both these things being concessions he had to make to bring the Albigensian wars to a close.

By the way I'm not against Catholicism (far from it), but the simple fact is that in this period the pope set in motion the ghastly Albigensian Crusade and was responsible for the reign of terror and persecution that ensued. Many loyal catholics were as appalled by the Church's doings as anyone else was, and many thousands of innocent Catholics were unjustly butchered by the pope's armies and tortured by his Dominican inquisitors.
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:iconenter-stanman:
enter-stanman Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2007
the way you draw knights and armor never fails to amaze me. :D love it! yet another :+fav:
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:iconunicornpoki:
UnicornPoki Featured By Owner Feb 27, 2007
wow!!!! wonderful Raymond VII!
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:iconzephroelectro:
zephroelectro Featured By Owner Jan 7, 2007
YET AGAIN. I SHALL STEAL UR TALENT XD

Thats really good, i like the colour :)
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:iconmehrunnisa:
Mehrunnisa Featured By Owner May 22, 2006
This image is an inspiration: [link]

:)
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner May 27, 2006
Thanks :)
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:iconmalaskor:
malaskor Featured By Owner May 20, 2006  Professional Photographer
Very beautiful work. Full of details (love the little castle in the background), and a very good pose. The colors work out great too.
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:icondavidhoffrichter:
DavidHoffrichter Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2006  Professional Traditional Artist
i'm a sucker for a knight on a horse and the fact that it is of a real person makes it that much better;) i think...I am such a fan of oils and anyone who can use them well:D well done!
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:iconcevoi:
Cevoi Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2006  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
:#1: :clap: :+fav:
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:iconalyahndarkelf:
AlyahnDarkelf Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2006   Photographer
Okay, this just made my jaw drop. AWesome!!!
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:iconekuboryu:
Ekuboryu Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2006
I love the colors. It's very well done, you can see the textures so well too. Bravo!
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:iconsunscapewings:
SunscapeWings Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2006
you're fucking talented.




that's all I have to say about that.
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:icondestichado:
Destichado Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2006
very good! A few suggestions for the future...

Try enlarging the horse's head and making the neck thinner. The cannon bone -er, that's their "wrist"- should be shorter, and their forelegs could actually stand to be a little longer. Also, *most* (but not all) warhorses were used with dubble reins. The curb rein -the one you drew- was often plated with armor or otherwise decorated, wihle the snaffle rein -the one right at the mouth- was slender. The cantle (front part) of the saddle would be half again as tall on a war saddle.

As for the knight, try lowering the torse and mantle from the top of the helm down to right above the eyeslits. Your way isn't wrong, I just think it makes for a more dramatic helmet and gives more room for a crest. Also, I can't remember this particular Count Raymond, (decendant of the famous crusader?) but during the mid 13th century the swordbelt rode a little higher on the hip; almost even with the other belt.


I only bother making these suggestions because you've already got so many things right. Your approximation of maille is very good (jeez, I think there must be a different method for each artist), and the helm is excelent. All you need is just a little polish and you'll be cranking out some amazing period pieces.
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2006
I'll bear that in mind next time
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:iconlutin-vert:
lutin-vert Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2006
yeah, wonderful work!!
you are from languedoc?
i did one like this me too...www.deviantart.com/deviation/30854375/
=)=)=)
byby see you soon
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2006
Thanks, no, I'm from Angleterre.
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:iconlutin-vert:
lutin-vert Featured By Owner Mar 29, 2006
ok, i said that because the icon that your knight have on his shield, it's my region's icon:w00t:
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Mar 30, 2006
That is the badge of the medieval St Gilles Counts of Toulouse, (the cross of Toulouse) which has become an emblem of the region. It still features on the civic heraldry of Toulouse.
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:iconluntary:
Luntary Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2006
wooo!!!!!!
Its a magnific work!!!!!!!!!
im without word
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:iconirinarichards:
irinarichards Featured By Owner Mar 27, 2006  Professional General Artist
awesome work, I just admire people who can do costume and armour details like this... :love: and the background's great, too.
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:iconpandoras-harbringer:
Pandoras-Harbringer Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2006
You're horses are getting better mate.
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:icondashinvaine:
dashinvaine Featured By Owner Mar 28, 2006
:)
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:iconjohnraptor:
JohnRaptor Featured By Owner Mar 19, 2006
This is awesome. I love it.
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March 19, 2006
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Mar 11, 2006, 11:07:29 AM
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